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qwerty
Golden Oldie
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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Location: On The Keyboard
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 Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:09 am
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Most (Not all) of the modern green methods of producing electricity just do not add up on a cost basis unless you plan on living to be 211 years old  |
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brianj42
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Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:27 am
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Chaps Chaps.
What I like about these tiles is that they don't fit on top of existing tiles. They fit on the battens and are designed to be a tile, fit like a tile as such. You then buy the normal tiles from the same company and they are designed to fit together perfectly. The other thing is that all you do is fit to batten and the electronics then connects to the next by a simple snap connection in a row, making replacement a 5 minute job. Last one then connects to your equipment. It really is a DIY system and having seen one installed its hard to tell that the roof has PV....Quite ingenious....
Tile
| qwerty wrote: | | Most (Not all) of the modern green methods of producing electricity just do not add up on a cost basis unless you plan on living to be 211 years old |
I would agree, but not all. You guys know me by now and I tend to investigate to the eighth degree and hate being ripped off. But. Having spoken to the manufacturer of these tiles, which come with a 25yr guarantee, doing my sums and NOT FITTS installing, purely DIY self sufficient I reckon I could get my money back in less than 4 years purely on savings and free thereafter. PV prices are coming down, but the installers are trying to keep them artificially inflated.
I don't suffer fools gladly  |
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Leo
All Grown Up
Joined: Dec 26, 2012
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:31 am
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Brian just curious in Bulgaria when I've got it right you pay like 10-11 eurocent /Kwh, over here in Holland we pay 22 eurocent/Kwh.
how much are you paying in England ? |
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brianj42
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Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:54 am
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| Leo wrote: | Brian just curious in Bulgaria when I've got it right you pay like 10-11 eurocent /Kwh, over here in Holland we pay 22 eurocent/Kwh.
how much are you paying in England ? |
Average about 19 Eurocents but rising about 10% year on year. With an average annual electric bill now around the £800 mark then finding an alternative is really a no brainer......
BG is one of the cheapest in Europe, but IMO it WILL get up to the 20 Eurocents mark within the next few years....... |
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Moscow_Wolf
Golden Oldie
Joined: Apr 07, 2012
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Location: Near Karnobat
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:01 pm
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| brianj42 wrote: | Chaps Chaps.
What I like about these tiles is that they don't fit on top of existing tiles. They fit on the battens and are designed to be a tile, fit like a tile as such. You then buy the normal tiles from the same company and they are designed to fit together perfectly. The other thing is that all you do is fit to batten and the electronics then connects to the next by a simple snap connection in a row, making replacement a 5 minute job. Last one then connects to your equipment. It really is a DIY system and having seen one installed its hard to tell that the roof has PV....Quite ingenious....
Tile
| qwerty wrote: | | Most (Not all) of the modern green methods of producing electricity just do not add up on a cost basis unless you plan on living to be 211 years old |
I would agree, but not all. You guys know me by now and I tend to investigate to the eighth degree and hate being ripped off. But. Having spoken to the manufacturer of these tiles, which come with a 25yr guarantee, doing my sums and NOT FITTS installing, purely DIY self sufficient I reckon I could get my money back in less than 4 years purely on savings and free thereafter. PV prices are coming down, but the installers are trying to keep them artificially inflated.
I don't suffer fools gladly |
Okay, haven't looked at the link as yet, but I assume we are talking South facing roofs with perhaps some East and West slope coverage, but how long and how deep does a roof need to be to produce a few kW's? I would also guess that these tiles are aimed more at new builds or re-roofing jobs where the right pitch can be made? |
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BG50KWP
All Grown Up
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 184
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 pm
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| Tabbul wrote: | | BG50KWP wrote: | | Remember its not sunshine that generates power, its irradiance and heat destroys power generation thus in a hot climate be wary of this situation. |
Hi BG50
I know this is a little off topic, but does the above comment mean PV panels might not neccessarily be good for say Saudi Arabia or UAE? |
Its all to do with the module Tabbul, some will perform better in dessert climates on basis they are designed for high heat climates, certain modules the degradation levels are less. Overall high heat situations are not optimum situation, if you're going to install a few hundred thousand modules in a dessert, energy is energy and any loss is within a design before the serious investment begins.
Majority of modules to be blunt are just crap, look-a-likes, shall repeat anyone and their dog is able to produce what appears to be a solar Pv module, include those with TUV and MCS certification the two standards to sell into UK and EU market and claim any FIT.
The roof tiles don't get carried away on aesthetics, Pv is about generation of energy and lots of it. If they are not MCS and/or TUV certificated walk away, these are the two basic certificates. Also check-out trading history, 25 year power warranty is no use if the company ceases to trade. Another reason I enjoy TBEA modules, seventy year trading history and partnerships with shell and BP solar, now own all of BP's intellectual property, forty years of solar science.
Last edited by BG50KWP on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Leo
All Grown Up
Joined: Dec 26, 2012
Posts: 48
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:09 pm
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"BG is one of the cheapest in Europe, but IMO it WILL get up to the 20 Eurocents mark within the next few years....... "
Without any doubt, as I said in another thread solar is viable in Holland now, no subsidie, placed by an installer break even in 10 years for an average household and profit after that.
By DIY you can go cheaper off course. |
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brianj42
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Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:20 pm
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| Moscow_Wolf wrote: |
Okay, haven't looked at the link as yet, but I assume we are talking South facing roofs with perhaps some East and West slope coverage, but how long and how deep does a roof need to be to produce a few kW's? I would also guess that these tiles are aimed more at new builds or re-roofing jobs where the right pitch can be made? |
According to what I have read, the effects of orientation and pitch are less than most people think. Moving the orientation from south to south-west, for example, reduces efficiency by less than 5% as does reducing the pitch from 30 degrees to less than 20 degrees. Yes there would be ideal direction and ultimate pitch but IMO 95% of a free cake is better than no cake (If that makes sense).
SolarDial
But I am sure BG can elaborate.....
I have the advantage of looking at installing on 2 new roof's one a double garage and the other over an extension, both South facing. I won't be going to the expense of a qualified installation or connecting to FITTS unless I can get a good price to do this. I have a "female" friend would you believe, who is French qualified to install, but can't get work in France because its a male orientated anti British place....Protectionism still rules on tradesmen in France....Unfortunately aesthetics is a key part as the installation will be road facing in a Conservation area and gert lumpy table tops on the roof won't cut it.. 
As for the company and the "25 Year Warranty" I am more than happy with Redland's pedigree of 90 years trading in 40 countries and multi Billion pound strong financials, MCS and TUV certificated...But yes, I am sure there's a lot of fly by nighters created in the last few years. The industry in the Uk does seem to have attracted a lot of sharks and bullshi**ers..
Last edited by brianj42 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:24 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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BG50KWP
All Grown Up
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:18 pm
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| brianj42 wrote: | | Moscow_Wolf wrote: |
Okay, haven't looked at the link as yet, but I assume we are talking South facing roofs with perhaps some East and West slope coverage, but how long and how deep does a roof need to be to produce a few kW's? I would also guess that these tiles are aimed more at new builds or re-roofing jobs where the right pitch can be made? |
According to what I have read, the effects of orientation and pitch are less than most people think. Moving the orientation from south to south-west, for example, reduces efficiency by less than 5% as does reducing the pitch from 30 degrees to less than 20 degrees. Yes there would be ideal direction and ultimate pitch but IMO 95% of a free cake is better than no cake (If that makes sense).
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Does make sense Brian, if you're going to make a return on your investment, the investor must be satisfied and that is all that counts. The view I took is over 20 years, the lost energy adds up especially if a roof could be designed at a optimum angle.
In Burgas the optimum all year round angle when panels are south facing is 48 degrees is seen in summer as 63 degrees or 33 degrees during winter.
If your roof is 20 degrees, over 20 years that's a lot of funds lost on poor roof design, the angle makes a huge difference especially in winter and we see that the optimum for Burgas all year round is 48 degrees and if the roof is 20 degrees, anyone want the maths? Its a huge loss over 20 years if the roof could be at a more optimum angle. |
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