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(FITS) Feed In Tarif Scheme-Bulgaria
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brianj42
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:24 pm 
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God I live in an ideal world.

So. The Uk has now given the go ahead for 4 new nuclear stations and due to the main backers pulling out it looks like GB UK Ltd may finance the £28 Billion to build them.

So what do you get for the £28 Billion.......8 Nuclear reactors capable of 13000MW

How many homes would that generate power for.......2,200,000 (9% of Uk households)

So, how much would it cost the government to stick 6kw PV systems on 2,200,000 homes ?

Answer £6.6 Billion

In fact for £28 Billion they could stick solar PV on 9,333,333 Homes or HALF of all UK households.....

The FITTS savings they are not paying to power companies and the income from the electric provided would pay them back in less than 10 years......

Are my figures right or am I just being naive ????????

Extrapolate that to Bulgaria and the €7B it is looking to spend on Belene Nuclear power station would actually put a 6Kv set of panels on EVERY house in BG........
  
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Leo
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:05 pm 
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The government is not there to make smart decisions who benefit the people. They are there to safeguard the interests of the big capital.
Holland just voted against a second nuclear power plant after people realised the electric generated was meant purely for export and we didn't need it. Lost change for the nuclear lobby.
Maybe Britain want's to become an exporter of cheap nuclear energy thats also a good reason for the big international transport networks.
  
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brianj42
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Sod it.

I've written to Nick Clegg (old Cleggy) and suggested this to him.

Also added that they should make new homes being built compulsory to install an equivalent PV system. 3 Million homes in the next 10 years this will put 3 million Uk homes self sufficient and reduce the need for extra stations, give free electric to the home owners, the PV industry has a leg up, and reduce greenhouse gasses at the same time....win Win Win Win Win

Now, if the EU proposed this one imagine how good that would be for Europe......

I expect the EDF sponsored horses head in my bed quite soon Cool
  
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seathrift
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:58 pm 
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BG50KWP, The record is stuck in the groove because it happens to be correct. As for my knowledge I have over 30years experience involved in the design of Nuclear Power Stations and alternative energy systems research. I have used wind and solar energy for many years on my yachts and those of other's. As one person cannot keep abreast of all developments, it may be that some of my knowledge is a little out of date, but that will not affect the overall truth of what I say.
It is only when the price of fossil fuels starts to rise dramatically that alternative energy supplies will become viable financially. At the moment over 70% of the worlds energy is produced by burning fossil fuels. France has a rather higher figure produced by Nuclear Energy, but so far as I am aware they are the only country not burning more fossil fuels than other fuels. Fossil fuel is the cheapest method of power production and until that changes, not much else will do so. China I read recently is building one fossil fuel station a week!
It is only Global Warming that affects the above issue, but the nations with the largest populations are not listening, I suspect because of the cost.
It might be wise to be sure of your facts before you post belittling comments, lest you make yourself look ingnorant instead!
  
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walkage
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:18 pm 
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I have little knowledge on this subject and have not much desire to look into it fully...however what did interest/amuse me was a recent report that the wind turbines in the UK originally had a life expectancy of 25 years - this has now been found that it is incorrect and the new figure is 12 years. Hmmm not financially viable in my book.. Confused  
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seathrift
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:28 pm 
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You might also like to note BG50KWP, that I have not supported any form of energy production. I have just stated the facts. I suggest you read my posts with a little more care in future.  
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seathrift
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:33 pm 
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What is also rarely mention Walkage, is that solar panels degrade with time, so they start as an ineffecient means of energy production and get worse as time goes on.  
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BG50KWP
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:44 pm 
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seathrift wrote:
What is also rarely mention Walkage, is that solar panels degrade with time, so they start as an ineffecient means of energy production and get worse as time goes on.


Please tell us all about degradation, what sort of percentage is acceptable, after all most goods purchased degrade, don't generator windings degrade making it prudent to derate the output; generate less electricity.

In not supporting renewables Seathrift what are you supporting? See no deny of Nuclear and the actual costs once disaster strikes, reference Japan. In your knocking of one, where are the specifics, instead of just generality of holds no sense except when you discover Seathrift built nuke power stations. We all get the picture now, making sense now Seathrift.
  
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brianj42
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:58 pm 
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Seathrift. Can you have a look at these new beasties and see what you think. They carry a 25 year warranty not only on the product but also its electric production capacity....

I am considering installing a 6Kw self sufficient system only Myself (No FITTS or Installation regulations) and these seem rather attractive, especially the aesthetics......

PVTiles
  
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BG50KWP
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Brian, to make any genuine assessment that company must at least disclose who manufactures their cells.

To be blunt, anyone and their dog is able to manufacture solar modules, and many companies here today most certainly we wont see those in a few years time, very few pioneer Solar companies.

The product looks similar to http://www.romag.co.uk/solar-pv/roof-tiles

Romag manufacture within the UK and I'm aware of their cell supplier & are able to buy direct from their factory in the UK.

Seen and handled two of their roof products, the product is well built, sturdy and the cells are from a large producer, beyond that I'm without further data such as performance during hot weather, etc.
  
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seathrift
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:53 pm 
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Brianj42 for once I agree with BG50 regarding info supplied. There are a few things that I would research further. I would start with the structural considerations. These tiles look like they are fairly solid stone or similar, screwed or bolted on top of the standard roof tiles. Their method of fixing could be crucial to the water tightness of the roof. Then what happens if you do have a leak? How easy will it be to fix it?
Given that the roof should have been designed for a snow load of around 140kg/m² and the weight of the existing tiles, will the roof structure take the additional weight? Any amount of dust an dirt on the units will reduce their effeciency notably, as will shadows. How will you clean them and are there any shadows from adjacent roofs etc.?
It looks as though the units are a number of independant panels, presumably wired together. How are the wiring runs fixed and what are the connections like in case you should have to take one or more out temporarily for any reason.
That said the only way to understand how good the units are at producing electricity is to look at the test data and the basis on which it was done. What assumptions were made, particularly with respect to useable sunlight.? Was it by an recognised independant testing house for instance? As with most research he who pays the piper calls the tune, so be careful with the validity of such info.
The attitude of the units to the sun is aslo quite critical. Will your roof have good enough qualities to get at or near max performance. Try googling trade reviews on these units as a way to get started.
I hope this helps.
  
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BG50KWP
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:23 am 
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Crucial also is the angle of the roof, a few degrees from optimum does have a huge bearing on electricity production, are two settings, winter and summer, obvious angles inbetween and then one angle is chosen to be optimum throughout the year, unless install a auto or manual tracker a device that follows the sun or seeks optimum irradiance level.

Also what type of cell or grade of cell? Guarantee not selling b-c grade cells? Manufacture of the cell is? Cell testing? And how the cell is packaged within the module itself? Initial light induced degradation once a few weeks out the box? Some modules drop 5% total power? Most settle at 97%, A few manufacturers over-power but maybe only guarantee 97%? Per annum degradation or power loss per year? Certain modules loose up to 0.7% each year. Some claim 0.3% yet no historical data to prove? Certain modules drop less than 0.1%. Power warranty? Workmanship warranty? Snail trails chemical reactions within the module do they happen with this module? Damp penetration over time? What about fire, modules known to combust? If the power remains within warranty then is no route to replace? What about financial stability? Does the company make a profit? Pay shareholder dividends? Only reliant on solar modules? Manufacture its own wafers & cells and to what standards, have ISO 9001, ISO 14001, ISO 18001, factory audit/inspected by independent body such as TUV, MCS, UL, etc? What additional tests been carried out and what company carried out those tests? Publish test data in Photon Magazine? Much of this data a customer will never find, just not made public. Most wholesalers and consultants sell for only one reason, they get commission and make a ton of money, the consumer gets a raw deal the problems show up in a few years time when that company is no longer, but then maybe they get lucky, but best is never cheapest nor most expensive, DYOR.

Whether the cell is mono or poly and here is a real debate as to what is best verses value for money, most folk would say mono, however it does not do well in high heat situations, when a module becomes hot the power generation could drop rapid? Some cells operate nominal 45 others 47c. Poly is low cost to produce, prefers direct sunlight, better temperature coefficients (handles heat better) and a quality Poly cells over the year verses initial cost, certain Poly cells are win win.

Also laboratory tests and real life tests differ, BP proved this, they developed the 156mm wafer, their cells were packaged to dissipate heat and could withstand higher temperatures before power drop. BP documented and published all their pioneering work, nothing to hide, warts and all and every problem was developed out from a use of science.

Remember its not sunshine that generates power, its irradiance and heat destroys power generation thus in a hot climate be wary of this situation.

NB. manufactures comparisons are to be ignored, all kinds of tricks are used, certain modules work best with certain inverters is a favourite trick. And certain software packages installers use are useless for high technology modules, again BP is a great example of building in technology that requires real life not a laboratory, BP spent large sums developing specialist software from real life solar installations, I know of some within UK 12 years and producing viable power.
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Spread the cables of goodwill, energize your home, animal sheds & neighbours. Happy New Year.
  
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Tabbul
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:56 am 
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BG50KWP wrote:
Remember its not sunshine that generates power, its irradiance and heat destroys power generation thus in a hot climate be wary of this situation.


Hi BG50
I know this is a little off topic, but does the above comment mean PV panels might not neccessarily be good for say Saudi Arabia or UAE?
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seathrift
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:50 am 
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BG50, Re your post me if you read them more carefully you will see that I have not supported or otherwise any form of power production. I have discussed only the costs of such production. As for providing details, to do it properly would require hundreds of books and reference to research papers. The whole subject covers a vast amount of detail that it just is not possible to relate on here. I worked in a company where comparisons of the alternatives were part of every day life so I do have a broad understanding of the factors involved.
You may support whatever you like, but it will not change the fact that all of the green alternatives are more expensive than conventional power production and note that Nuclear is a long away from the cheapest.
For the individual which method to use will depend on a number of factors, which only that individual will know in full. Given the size of the population of Bulgaria compared to the major Nations there is not much point in any one person here trying to save the world, so to speak.
The likes of the regular power cuts in BG may persaude some people to use alternative methods of power production, but it will not be cheaper than mains power.
In addition unless you can afford to loose your investment it will mean that you cannot move house. To get back even part of your investment will take a number of years. Unless and until conventional costs rise rapidly. That however will also put up the cost of the equipment needed to provide alternative supplies.
Get out your crystal ball I say!
  
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Moscow_Wolf
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:49 am 
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Personally, I am more for smaller output portable solar generation. I have researched solar powered electric cattle fencing (for when I get some sheep). Small Solar powered fountain for a garden feature that despite folk here telling me they were crap, only cost around £30 and get a lot of good reviews on Amazon.

I have a number of solar lights that run all year round as long as I set them to work a 6 hour cycle during winter and I wish to get a solar set-up to run the 12volt side of the caravan plus another one to charge mobile telephones and computer batteries.

I invested in 3 solar water heating panels at a cost of around 750 Leva each panel producing a constant 300 litres of hot water, but to be honest, summertime is not really the time of year that I need it, but at least my system integrates the Petchka and and an electricity back up for 80 litres when there is no sun or no fire burning.

I still think that a smaller output solar set up with a tilting mechanism might be worthwhile at some stage even if it only produces a kW or two, but I will have to work that one out more closely when I am ready for it. It is a pity that installation and set-up costs are still high as the sun is for free and we tend to get a lot of it here in Bulgaria.
  
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