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TheMod
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 Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:54 am
Post subject: Refuse To Work? Social Benefits Suspended |
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www.novinite.com/People+who+Refused+to+Work
How do you feel about this? Should the UK adopt the same measures?
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Seedy
Golden Oldie
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 6355
Location: Sofia, Dupnitsa, Lincs
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:36 am
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Nah: many of them are too busy eating, auditioning for Jeremy Kyle and/or producing a new generation of feckless wastrels to get off their butts and "work" (especially since they're unfamiliar with that word, apart from in the context of it being something that other people do so they can continue their indolent lives and gob off about their Yuman Rites)... 
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Tabbul
In The Prime
Joined: Oct 07, 2012
Posts: 477
Location: Tabashko
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: Refuse To Work? Social Benefits Suspended |
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Yes they should.
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Moscow_Wolf
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Joined: Apr 07, 2012
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Location: Near Karnobat
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 pm
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It was a very sad moment for me when I had to present myself to the Social to claim my entitled Unemployment Benefit and thankfully, it was not for long albeit, there are those that have never worked, will never work and still expect to live for free and have no qualms about claiming what they reckon is rightfully theirs.
I do not wish to reinstate National Service (more trouble than they're worth), but I would wish to see most of these social scroungers forced to do community work, cleaning the streets or whatever and being paid the minimum wage pro-rata. The system is wrong when a neighbouring resident has to get up each and every work day to earn his wage whilst the social scrounger lies in bed and still comes out better than the worker at the end of the week.
Most of us are aware of this and have been for many years, but which Politician or Government is going to grow a pair and do something about it.
Before the incoming, I am not intending to tar everyone with the same brush and now that I am back in the system of paying taxes and social funds in Bulgaria - I am glad that my contributions are not being wasted on Bulgarian CHAVS as I don't think that class exists here and I am not including the ethnics in this statement. |
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Seedy
Golden Oldie
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
Posts: 6355
Location: Sofia, Dupnitsa, Lincs
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 pm
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Easy fix, Mr Wolf: No representation without contribution 
Once the turkeys no longer have a vote, the rest of us can decide what we're going to eat for Xmas.....
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zoomzoom
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Joined: Aug 29, 2012
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:06 am
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There are already sanctions in place in the UK whereby benefits can be stopped for a time if someone does not take a job. Just a shame it is not used more often especially when it is quite plain that some people see being on benefits as a lifestyle choice.
This is my experience of some of the morons who work in the benefits system.
Some years ago whilst living in the UK, Roger was diagnosed with severe angina, his GP was against him working and he went on sickness benefit. One time his benefit was stopped because they said more than 20 years before when he was on unemployment benefit for a short time they MAY have overpaid him by a small amount. Eventually it turned out he had not been overpaid. Another time the benefit was stopped without notice, when he queried it, he was told they had the wrong NI number for him, funny how it was paid until that point.
He then received a letter to go for an assessment with a Doctor who would be a specialist in his field. The 'Doctor' did not know what his myriad of pills were for, found him fit for work but wrote that he could have a cardiac infarction (heart attack) at any time.
He'd had enough of dealing with these people, got a job, felt happier for working, stayed on loads of pills for years and luckily did not have a heart attack. |
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Seedy
Golden Oldie
Joined: Feb 21, 2012
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Location: Sofia, Dupnitsa, Lincs
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Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:54 pm
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ZZ, the problem is usually with the system itself rather than the "morons" who work in it. Unfortunately, everything is initially decided by a computer program, which is often not fit for purpose, despite having cost several squillion quid.....
Nonetheless, you're right that the quality of staff ain't what it used to be in my day! 
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Tiarnan
In The Prime
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:36 am
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| And once these " social scroungers" are sorted out then we can move on to the real" social scroungers ".......those evading tax by the billion.......who cost every country more than all the so called benefit cheats. Not too many Chanel 4 or RTE programmes about them. |
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Tabbul
In The Prime
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:09 am
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| Tiarnan wrote: |
the real" social scroungers ".......those evading tax by the billion.......who cost every country more than all the so called benefit cheats. Not too many Chanel 4 or RTE programmes about them. |
But you do have to admit they are working for their money
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Seedy
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Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:49 pm
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| Tiarnan wrote: | | And once these " social scroungers" are sorted out then we can move on to the real" social scroungers ".......those evading tax by the billion.......who cost every country more than all the so called benefit cheats. Not too many Chanel 4 or RTE programmes about them. |
A lot (maybe even most) tax is evaded by those who aren't in, or near, the super-rich bracket. Rich people know - or pay those who do know - how to avoid tax while staying within the law.
Every time someone pays a builder or whoever cash in hand, they're aiding and abetting tax evasion but that doesn't stop them complaining about people who are behaving perfectly legally. It takes a real altruist, or a fool, to pay more tax than he is required to, especially when the government then proceeds to waste it on foreign aid to thieves, famine relief to countries with too many people already, back-handers to those who will offer ex-politicos a job - and yer scroungers, of course....
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atticjon
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:46 am
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By far the biggest portion of 'benefits' (excluding pensions, which are a right worked and paid for) are paid to those in work who's wages do not cover their living costs. This is a subsidy to business which the taxpayers pay. So we normal taxpayers are subsidising the wealth of business owners and shareholders. It is an example of wealth transfer from the average to the wealthy, but most people just don't see this. It is also an insidious entrapment into poorly paid work, your benefits are related to your job and have become a largess from an apparently caring state, but you are still stuck in a poorly paid job. This apparent generousity is a subsidy and in a way an entrapment. A weeks work should pay the rent and expenses without problem and without the sword of Damocles the state hovering over you.
As for the benefit scroungers. I'm fairly sick of the Daily Mails' articles about working fitness instructors and lumberjacks claiming disability allowance. These are a tiny minority, most folk want to work. Articles of this ilk are designed to make people feel guilty and uncomfortable about signing on. You have paid national insurance, which means what the words say, and have the right to a small, but life supporting amount of money if you fall on hard times.
As for the original bit about not turning up to do your few days work to collect the Bulgarian unemployment benefit. I'm not too surprised. I think the basic benefit is about 50 lev a week...... so it's borderline as to why bother.
They might be principled too. Why should I undertake unpaid labour to receive a benefit I've already paid in to receive? Is this not undermining wages and the labour market? It's very dangerous ground.
I like to believe that I would refuse all work that is either unpaid, or not my choice to do. |
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Seedy
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:32 pm
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All very laudable - at least on the surface.....
| atticjon wrote: | | By far the biggest portion of 'benefits' (excluding pensions, which are a right worked and paid for) are paid to those in work who's wages do not cover their living costs. |
Firstly, "pensions" are NOT necessarily "a right worked and paid for" - they are also paid to what we can loosely call "scroungers" once they reach State Pension Age; they are automatically granted "National Insurance Credits" by dint of having claimed their bennies prior to them becoming OAPs. This is very handy for HMG, of course, since they no longer appear in the stats as Miscellaneous/Feckless Wastrels.
Working Tax Credit is a Good Idea (if you're familiar with "1066 And All That" ) but to call it "a subsidy to business" is no more than Socialist Claptrap at its finest. Presumably the rationale behind this is that "Business" should pay people more than their labour and "skills" are worth in order to realise some La-la Fabian dream; of course, that means that whatever is produced will then cost more but luckily international competitors will realise that this is the way forward and will increase their own prices in order to give British Business a sporting chance and a level playing-field on the world's markets. Of course, as we all know there is already no shortage of folk in the domestic market who will be only too happy to volunteer to reduce their own living standards by paying over the odds for whatever goods or services are produced by the businesses whose overheads have just increased - after all, what's money compared to a nice warm Socialist Glow? It's probably best not to think about what the workers one step up the food chain will make of their eroding differentials but no doubt Comrade Consumer will fork out even more to keep them happy as well...
Do you not feel that perhaps people's inability/unwillingness to cut their coat according to the cloth, ie keep their living costs closer in line with their income, plays some part here? If their value in the world is X then they have the choice of either living on X or taking steps to increase their value by increasing their skills (or gaining new ones); it makes no sense to expect that The Universe Will Provide for people who choose to allow their expenses to exceed their income, regardless of whether that's on account of their Yuman Rites to have a zillion-inch TV to watch reality shows, habits that they can't afford or a family that they can't provide for.
| atticjon wrote: | | This is a subsidy to business which the taxpayers pay. So we normal taxpayers are subsidising the wealth of business owners and shareholders. It is an example of wealth transfer from the average to the wealthy, but most people just don't see this. |
Have you give any thought to the possibility that most people don't see it because it isn't there? You're quite right that the operation of Capitalism is mostly nothing to be proud of but who in their right mind would want to pay more than the market rate for ANY commodity, regardless of whether that's a consumer item or someone else's labour?
| atticjon wrote: | | It is also an insidious entrapment into poorly paid work, your benefits are related to your job and have become a largess from an apparently caring state, but you are still stuck in a poorly paid job. This apparent generousity is a subsidy and in a way an entrapment. A weeks work should pay the rent and expenses without problem and without the sword of Damocles the state hovering over you. |
Again, you're right that a week's work should at least cover a week's living expenses but that presupposes that those expenses are in line with the reality of the situation rather than based on unrealistic aspirations.
| atticjon wrote: | | As for the benefit scroungers. I'm fairly sick of the Daily Mails' articles about working fitness instructors and lumberjacks claiming disability allowance. These are a tiny minority, most folk want to work. Articles of this ilk are designed to make people feel guilty and uncomfortable about signing on. You have paid national insurance, which means what the words say, and have the right to a small, but life supporting amount of money if you fall on hard times. |
That's exactly what Beveridge had in mind when he defined his Five Giant Evils in 1942 but neither he nor anyone else envisaged the current phenomena of Generational Idleness, and Entitlement; "falling on hard times" doesn't really describe the current state of play, does it?
| atticjon wrote: | | As for the original bit about not turning up to do your few days work to collect the Bulgarian unemployment benefit. I'm not too surprised. I think the basic benefit is about 50 lev a week...... so it's borderline as to why bother. |
Actually, here in BG unemployment benefit is the higher of 60 % of either the average wage or the average income of the claimant in the last two years. It has a lower limit of (I believe) 7.20 leva daily but this is superseded by the 60% figure above.
| atticjon wrote: | They might be principled too. Why should I undertake unpaid labour to receive a benefit I've already paid in to receive? Is this not undermining wages and the labour market? It's very dangerous ground.
I like to believe that I would refuse all work that is either unpaid, or not my choice to do. |
That's another "Good Thing" about Bulgaria: everyone understands the deal, which is that no-one is forced to do something which is antithetical to their principles - provided, of course, that those principles are strong enough to also include the notion of "you no work, you no eat". Claimants DON'T undertake unpaid labour - they are paid benefits in return for (very menial) work; strangely enough, this seems to stimulate people not to hang around on bennies for too long, thereby encouraging them back into the labour market and giving them a sense of paying their own way. Obviously, there is still a certain stratum of society which regards work as a four-letter word to be avoided if at all possible but that's a whole different topic for discussion....
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Last edited by Seedy on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tabbul
In The Prime
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Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:31 pm
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Succinct as usual Seedy, Bravo
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